Fact #99088
When:
Short story:
The Kinks' management company, Boscobel Productions, signs a deal in London, UK, with entrepreneur Larry Page of Denmark Productions.
Full article:
Dave Davies (guitarist, The Kinks] : Page wasn't really managing us. He was just somebody else trying to get a piece of the action. We were paying 40% on that first management contract. It was ridiculous, especially then. Larry came from a similar background to us, so there was initially a fair amount of camaraderie between Ray and I and Larry. But he was an older generation. He was a failed pop star. He wanted to be Buddy Holly or Eddie Cochran but he couldn't cut it. So Larry knew about being a singer and a performer, but all the real creative decisions came from us and Robert and Grenville, and then Larry would apply his practical knowledge to help us put those ideas into practice.
Everybody within the management had a role to play and, on the whole, played it well, but Larry and Robert didn't get on at all. Robert, I thought, was a very creative individual who would have liked to have been a performer. Robert was a very important creative influence for the band. Grenville was an important emotional support for me, later on, when we started going to America. And Larry helped us get on the path.
Ray Davies (leader, The Kinks] : Larry's company, Denmark Productions, was owned by Eddie Kassner who was the publisher. We'd previously signed a deal with Boscobel Productions, which was our managers, Robert Wace and Grenville Collins. Within that contract, Boscobel had the right to assign part of their management duties to anybody they wanted. And they picked Larry Page, whose company was owned by a publisher. Hence the lawsuit.
Dave Davies : One of Larry's faults was that, being of the old school of business, he'd say one thing to your face, then he'd be bad-mouthing you the next. It creates a lot of negativity, and that's what happened in the management bust-up.They were so busy slagging off each other, and we were starting to realise where our money was going, and we realised that the only way to survive was to do it ourselves.
But, at the start, Larry did help us get a publishing deal ... with a dodgy publisher ... and he helped us get in there because Robert and Grenville didn't have the right music business contacts, which is why they brought him on board. It worked well in the early times. To be fair, it was a team effort, but the team has nothing to work on if there's no songwriter and no players.
Ray Davies : I'd like to say one thing about Larry. I know Larry has his grudges and everything but, you know, I think he was ... it was an interesting combination with him and Boscobel, it was like the Mickey Willett thing but he found a way through it. He was very good over that record, and finding a way for me to get the thing to sound the way I wanted. Because the Shel Talmy version of the record was horrible. He didn't really know how the band sounded, and to give Larry credit, I think he knew what the spirit of the band was, and what my heart was musically. He had no idea what I'm like as a person but, for the small time he was with us, he knew what the band wanted.
His management was different. The problems arising from that are still being fought over. No, he's a disaster as a manager. But in A + R, he was a bridge, you know? It helped us, you know? He knew people. I wouldn't say that he's all bad.
Dave Davies : Larry was really supportive, but you have to remember he was coming at us from a publishing point of view. He was looking for original material for his boss Ed Kassner. So he wanted us to write songs rather than do covers, but that suited us anyway, because we knew we could write better songs than what Denmark Street was offering us. We'd go down there looking for songs, and they'd play us tapes and they were crap. I wrote the first two songs, because I realised how easy it was.
There was a lot of fifties hangover people still controlling the music business.That was really where Larry was coming from. He didn't understand where we were coming from. It was a different generation, although he did help us with the business side.
Larry Page : I went in and demoed the band then took the results to Decca, who didn't want to know. EMI, Fontana and CBS also turned them down. Then I went to Louis Benjamin of Pye who said, 'I'll do a deal with you but I've signed up a couple of American producers (Shel Talmy and Mike Stone) who are also signed to Decca for some tracks. I will take your band but you'll have to go with these producers'. I told him, 'I have no problem with that.'
(Source : Mojo, October 2008)
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Everybody within the management had a role to play and, on the whole, played it well, but Larry and Robert didn't get on at all. Robert, I thought, was a very creative individual who would have liked to have been a performer. Robert was a very important creative influence for the band. Grenville was an important emotional support for me, later on, when we started going to America. And Larry helped us get on the path.
Ray Davies (leader, The Kinks] : Larry's company, Denmark Productions, was owned by Eddie Kassner who was the publisher. We'd previously signed a deal with Boscobel Productions, which was our managers, Robert Wace and Grenville Collins. Within that contract, Boscobel had the right to assign part of their management duties to anybody they wanted. And they picked Larry Page, whose company was owned by a publisher. Hence the lawsuit.
Dave Davies : One of Larry's faults was that, being of the old school of business, he'd say one thing to your face, then he'd be bad-mouthing you the next. It creates a lot of negativity, and that's what happened in the management bust-up.They were so busy slagging off each other, and we were starting to realise where our money was going, and we realised that the only way to survive was to do it ourselves.
But, at the start, Larry did help us get a publishing deal ... with a dodgy publisher ... and he helped us get in there because Robert and Grenville didn't have the right music business contacts, which is why they brought him on board. It worked well in the early times. To be fair, it was a team effort, but the team has nothing to work on if there's no songwriter and no players.
Ray Davies : I'd like to say one thing about Larry. I know Larry has his grudges and everything but, you know, I think he was ... it was an interesting combination with him and Boscobel, it was like the Mickey Willett thing but he found a way through it. He was very good over that record, and finding a way for me to get the thing to sound the way I wanted. Because the Shel Talmy version of the record was horrible. He didn't really know how the band sounded, and to give Larry credit, I think he knew what the spirit of the band was, and what my heart was musically. He had no idea what I'm like as a person but, for the small time he was with us, he knew what the band wanted.
His management was different. The problems arising from that are still being fought over. No, he's a disaster as a manager. But in A + R, he was a bridge, you know? It helped us, you know? He knew people. I wouldn't say that he's all bad.
Dave Davies : Larry was really supportive, but you have to remember he was coming at us from a publishing point of view. He was looking for original material for his boss Ed Kassner. So he wanted us to write songs rather than do covers, but that suited us anyway, because we knew we could write better songs than what Denmark Street was offering us. We'd go down there looking for songs, and they'd play us tapes and they were crap. I wrote the first two songs, because I realised how easy it was.
There was a lot of fifties hangover people still controlling the music business.That was really where Larry was coming from. He didn't understand where we were coming from. It was a different generation, although he did help us with the business side.
Larry Page : I went in and demoed the band then took the results to Decca, who didn't want to know. EMI, Fontana and CBS also turned them down. Then I went to Louis Benjamin of Pye who said, 'I'll do a deal with you but I've signed up a couple of American producers (Shel Talmy and Mike Stone) who are also signed to Decca for some tracks. I will take your band but you'll have to go with these producers'. I told him, 'I have no problem with that.'
(Source : Mojo, October 2008)