Fact #123633

Eamonn Andrews : I can't begin this show without starting off and congratulating Ringo. Ringo, congratulations.

Ringo Starr : Thank you.

Paul McCartney : (jokingly) Congratulations.

Eamonn Andrews : How does it feel to be an expectant dad?

Ringo Starr : Not so bad, you know. Not so bad. I hope it's a boy or a girl. (laughter)

John Lennon : It might be an eye.

Eamonn Andrews : Well, when it does come - boy or girl - George, you may well go to John here for some advice.

George Harrison : George?

John Lennon : George isn't having one.

George Harrison : That's my name, that's me.

John Lennon : Mine's too. I think.

Eamonn Andrews : Will you be able to give him some good advice?

John Lennon : No.

Eamonn Andrews : No? Anyway... I know that you're working on your new film, and that means that you've less spare time than you ever had before. And I'm very delighted that you gave us some of your spare time tonight.

John Lennon : (comical voice) It's a pleasure coming.

Paul McCartney : It's nice to be here.

Eamonn Andrews : Now this is your second film. The first one was compared to the Marx Brothers. Remember?

John Lennon : Oh, aye.

Paul McCartney : Yes. Yes, well...

Eamonn Andrews : Have you ever seen the Marx Brothers?

Paul McCartney : Yes. Nothing like us.

Eamonn Andrews : Nothing like you. I believe that.

Paul McCartney : And we're nothing like them.

Eamonn Andrews : Well, what sort of thing- this is addressed to all of you - What sort of thing makes you fellas laugh?

Paul McCartney : Uhh... The Marx Brothers. (laughter)

Eamonn Andrews : John, do you have any preference anymore when you go to the cinema?

John Lennon : I like to see Ringo.

Eamonn Andrews : You do.

John Lennon : Very good. Yes.

Eamonn Andrews : Ringo, any preference in comedy? Slapstick or smart talk, or what?

Ringo Starr : Laurel and Hardy.

Eamonn Andrews : George?

George Harrison : Uhh, well... Just recently, we've seen the last few Peter Sellers' films, I like all that, you know.

Paul McCartney : Peter Cook. Great.

Ringo Starr : Yeah. He's great.

Paul McCartney : Marvelous.

John Lennon : I like the other fellow - Lionel Humpty, or whatever his name was.

Paul McCartney : No. Lionel Stander.

John Lennon : Just a couple of plugs, Eamonn.

Eamonn Andrews : Which of you, in the film - I know that you're playing yourselves,
The Beatles - Which of you is the best actor?

John Lennon : Me. (laughter)

Ringo Starr : Yeah.

Eamonn Andrews : Why are you the best actor, John?

John Lennon : 'Cuz Ringo said.

Ringo Starr : I always say he's the best. He pays me.

Eamonn Andrews : Now, in these two films - in this one and the one you did before - you are playing yourselves, The Beatles. Do you have any thoughts of the future, you know, in a separate way to be actors? As other parts besides the parts of The Beatles?

John Lennon : No. Couldn't do it.

Paul McCartney : We can't act, you know. We're no good.

John Lennon : They do so many cuts, it looks as though we're nearly acting. But we're not.

George Harrison : Paul's gonna play Cathy in...

Eamonn Andrews : Wuthering Heights?

George Harrison : Yeah, that's right, Paul's Cathy.

Paul McCartney : Yeah. Wuthering Heights. It's my big ambition. No, but, uhh... We're not good enough as actors 'cuz they get, as John said, they get people around us in the film, and just stick us in in a little bit. Then there's a whole big pile of acting. And it looks as though we can act. But we can't.

George Harrison : It's a good director.

Ringo Starr : I hope he's watching.

Eamonn Andrews : Well, they say that directors are important, but don't you have any ambitions to be actors? Ringo?

Ringo Starr : I'd like to be an actor.

Eamonn Andrews : Do you see yourself in any particular kind of part?

Ringo Starr : Any part.

John Lennon : You can have them all.

Ringo Starr : I want to keep working. It's good fun, you know. Apart from all the terrible bits, it's great.

Eamonn Andrews : Even if you don't see yourselves as actors, boys, Everyone is interested in what you have to say and what you think about. How do you see the future? You know, the long distance future, like when you're thirty-five or forty?

John Lennon : Through a glass.

Eamonn Andrews : Darkly.

Paul McCartney : We've never planned, you know. And we're not planning now, still.

Eamonn Andrews : Do you really mean that you don't think about the future, John?

John Lennon : Well, we don't think about...

George Harrison : We play it by ear. That's what our press representative tells us.

Ringo Starr : What's he say?

George Harrison : We play it by ear.

John Lennon : Do we?

George Harrison : I do. I've got big ears. Listen to this.

Eamonn Andrews : But surely, at least two of you - Ringo now, and you John, as married men you must give some concern to the future.

John Lennon : Ahh, well. We do have a bit more responsibilities than the others, you know. We keep Paul and George in hand, you know. Ooo, I'm on!

Eamonn Andrews : Now how about this, Ringo-- Do you think, 'What am I going to be in ten or fifteen years time?'

Ringo Starr : No. 'Cuz I know, you know.

John Lennon : Older.

Ringo Starr : The only thing I'll be in ten years is 'old.'

George Harrison : And withered.

Ringo Starr : And Withered Heights.

Paul McCartney : I like it.

Ringo Starr : It was funny when someone said it before.

Eamonn Andrews : Your success, anyway, is obviously... is assured. What do you think? You must get a great smile from all the psychologists and journalists and social thinkers who try and analyze the reason for your success.

Paul McCartney : It's rubbish, you know. I think so.

George Harrison : We owe it all to our manager.

Paul McCartney : I don't think they know what they're talking about. 'Cuz they just try and analyze, you know, and it's not that deep. They try and go into it, and there's nothing there, really. Is there?

Eamonn Andrews : Well, of course, there's a great deal there. Have you ever sat down yourselves and said-- apart from your musical ability-- 'What is it that's made us such...' because you are, as you know, a phenomenon. What caused it?

John Lennon : We don't know at all. We're always asked, you know, but we haven't a clue. I don't think anybody has.

Paul McCartney : What made you, Eamonn?

Eamonn Andrews : Ahh! That's a good question. But I have a quote here from somebody who said-- a famous New York psychologist said, 'The Beatles symbolically kill off the older generation. They show how neglected and misunderstood they believe themselves to be.' What does that mean?

John Lennon : I don't know what it means. Ask him! It's alot of rubbish, that. Alot of rubbish, New York psychologist.

Eamonn Andrews : I don't know what it means, that you 'symbolically kill off the older generation.' Do you have any feelings...?

Paul McCartney : It's not true, you know. They think that we're sort of going around chopping everyone to bits and things, but we're not. Alright, Dad.

John Lennon : (to Paul) Is your Dad here?

Paul McCartney : No, he's at home. Alright, Dad.

Eamonn Andrews : It's alright, Dad. He's not going to kill off the older generation. Is that what you mean?

Paul McCartney : No, I'm not. No.

Eamonn Andrews : But there must be some answer that has occurred to you that has made this success, apart from the music. Have you seen any single quote that you said, 'That's it. That must be why we did it'?

John Lennon : (jokingly) 'Well, the way I look at it is...' (long pause) … That's the way I see it, anyway.

Eamonn Andrews : George, do you think that they're all just looking for reasons that don't exist?

George Harrison : Umm, nobody likes to think there isn't any real reason. But, you know, I'm sure they're wrong because we've just done it the same way as everybody else. But we've just had a laugh and a smile, and a smile and a laugh. Haven't we?

John Lennon : And a laugh and a smile.

George Harrison : ...you know, and just played it by ear.

John Lennon : (to George) You SAID that.

George Harrison : I'm saying it again!

Paul McCartney : He's trying to get a catch-phrase!

Eamonn Andrews : At what point did it begin to surprise you? Did you sit back and be amazed, or was it too gradual? Does it creep up on you?

Ringo Starr : I was amazed the day we got paid.

John Lennon : Ringo speaking.

Ringo : That's me.

Eamonn Andrews : We're also being joined by 'Observer' columnist - delighted to welcome her back - Katherine Whitehorn. And also by writer Wolf Mankowitz.

John Lennon : He's been on before?

Eamonn Andrews : He has indeed, and I hope he'll be on again, too.

Wolf Mankowitz : He won't if he carries on the way he's been carrying on tonight.

Paul McCartney : Tell him, Wolf!

Wolf Mankowitz : Terrifying giggle he's got tonight.

Paul McCartney : Get him, Wolf!

John Lennon : Get him, Wolf! Fetch him!

Wolf Mankowitz : Show us your picture, John. Show us your pictures.

John Lennon : Only if you show me yours.

Wolf Mankowitz : After the show.

John Lennon : Oh dear. Not here.

Eamonn Andrews : Katherine, in your column this morning, you were talking about a situation that will soon involve Ringo here-- about what to say-- the problem of giving an honest opinion of a new baby. You know, when someone says, 'Here's the new baby,' what do you say! Have you got any tips that can be offered? Not necessarily to Ringo, but to his colleagues, what they say?"

Katherine Whitehorn : "All I said was that, if you don't know what to say about the kid - the uglier it is, the more pleased the parents are if you say, 'It's just like you.'"

Ringo Starr : They all look the same to me.

George Harrison : It's easier to have an old children.

Eamonn Andrews : To have a what, George?

George Harrison : An old children. An old child. Children.

Paul McCartney : I don't get that. Could you please explain it?

John Lennon : It must be deep.

Wolf Mankowitz : It's a deep remark.

George Harrison : It's not deep.

Eamonn Andrews : Wolf, you too, like Katherine, joined the ranks of the Sunday columnists today. Apart from what you said just now about John's giggle, I quote you, you said that 'although The Beatles make a cult of casualness, I don't think The Beatles are at all modest.' Would you care to repeat that now in front of them?"

Wolf Mankowitz : I don't think The Beatles are at all modest.

John Lennon : He's right.

Ringo Starr : Neither do we.

John Lennon : He spotted it, didn't he?

Katherine Whitehorn : Well, what have they got to be modest for?

Wolf Mankowitz : I think they're four highly... well I mean, much of their publicity points out their modesty - which derives from their casualness - which derives from the contempt with which they treat their audiences, essentially.

Eamonn Andrews : Do you think that they treat their audiences with contempt?

Wolf Mankowitz: Oh yes. They're so assured of the reaction of the audience that they...

John Lennon : You're joking! You're wrong there! We mightn't be modest, but for instance, today we did a show - it's the first time we've done anything for months, live, and we were petrified!"

Wolf Mankowitz : Why is that?

John Lennon : 'Cuz we've been making a film, you see, actually ...and it's on United Artists... and we were petrified today. We always are. So we're not that immodest.

Wolf Mankowitz: But I mean, personal appearances don't actually hurt the sales of your records. I mean, your last record presubscribed three hundred and fifty thousand.

John Lennon : No, that doesn't mean to say it's gonna jump in like everybody thinks.

Paul McCartney : "Cuz those...

John Lennon : That means that dealers have ordered... Sorry 'bout that, Paul.

Paul McCartney : It's alright, John.

John Lennon : The dealers have ordered that many. But it doesn't mean to say people are gonna buy them. It's when they've ordered them, and people come and buy them from them.

Wolf Mankowitz : Three records ago, it was pre-subscribed one million.

Paul McCartney : I know but that's...

George Harrison : Sorry about that, Wolf!

Wolf Mankowitz : No, I don't mind!

Paul McCartney : That's only the dealers. That's not the...

John Lennon : But it's still only the dealers. It's not people putting their names down to buy records.

Wolf Mankowitz : I'm just saying it's not symptomatic of a modest regard for audiences that artists appear on television in front of some ten million possible buyers of records. I mean, I'm not knocking you, I'm just being realistic.

Eamonn Andrews : You switched the subject, Wolf, in a way.

Katherine Whitehorn : Well look, Wolf. I mean, you're leaving us out, aren't you? They do it for the money just like anybody else, like - might be you or me.

Paul McCartney : Right, Missus. Right on.

Eamonn Andrews : But you were saying that they're deliberately mixing modesty with assurance in front of an audience. I don't believe that. As John has said, that even The Beatles, with all their experience, will ever go out in front of an audience and be assured that they've got a good audience."

Paul McCartney : Every time we...

John Lennon : And the better we... Oh. Sorry, Paul!

Paul McCartney : It's all right, John. Every time we release a record, we really are terrified that it's not going to make it. Honest.

Wolf Mankowitz : Well, why is that, do you think?

John Lennon : People expect it.

Wolf Mankowitz : With the size of the success machine that you now have massed behind you, why do you have to be nervous?

John Lennon : Well, it's worse for us than other people, 'cuz we've got to keep up doing what we've done before. If we don't do it as well, people will knock you. Even though you're doing better than anybody else and you're doing it not as well as you did before, you're in trouble.

Wolf Mankowitz : But now you're a serious incursion into the film business. Your last film grossed very big money at the box office.

Paul McCartney : Yeah. That doesn't mean to say that our next film is gonna be the biggest flop out, you know. Could be! You can't presubscribe things like films, or the 'goodness' of records.

Wolf Mankowitz : There is a certain algebra to these things. It's known, for example, that though James Bond films will eventually drop off, they will build an accumulative business based upon the business they did before. Similarly, the next Beatles film must do something very near to the business of the last Beatles film.

Paul McCartney : Yeah, but what... You weren't saying that before. You were saying that the thing about the presubscribed thing is that it doesn't matter whether it's good or bad. But it does, you see. It really does. If the word gets 'round that this next film's a bad film, however pre-subscribed it is, it'll be a flop, you know. And the third one will really finish us.

John Lennon : Even if the third one's very good, if the second one doesn't make it...

Paul McCartney : You can do bad things, you know. I mean, maybe you think we do now.

Eamonn Andrews : I think that The Beatles are in the situation of the - to use a metaphor I'm used to - a boxer who has never been beaten. Each fight gets tougher because he hasn't had a defeat.

Wolf Mankowitz : So for that reason, you need to have a genuine modesty towards the audience. That's what we're arguing.

Paul McCartney : Yeah. The modesty is...

Wolf Mankowitz : You're frightened of the audience.

Paul McCartney : Well it's, sort of, as opposed to conceited, really. You can't be conceited and still worry that every time you go on the people aren't gonna like you.

John Lennon : I think you can. I think you can be conceited but you can still worry. I've met lots of conceited people who are worried before they go on. I don't think the two things connect at all, you know. You can be conceited and worry yourself sick.

Eamonn Andrews : You can't be fully conceited and worried. If you're totally conceited, you just don't worry.

Katherine Whitehorn : Oh, I don't know. What about Alfred Lundt? When they...

John Lennon : Who's that?

Ringo : What about him?

John Lennon: What about him, eh?

Katherine Whitehorn : You might have heard of him. He was a century and a half before your time, maybe. But there was a story about he and his wife Lyn Fontaine, and he was saying, 'How was I?' in this evening's performance. And she said, 'You were just fine, you were marvelous. I was absolutely terrible. You did look a little tired, but you were just a terrific actor. But I was ghastly. I was appalling, I don't know how I got through it.' And when she'd finished depraving herself, he said, 'I was a little tired, was I?' So you could call him not conceited.

Paul McCartney : Yeah.

Eamonn Andrews : Well, Wolf there, a moment ago, mentioned the algebra of the box office, which you...

Paul McCartney : Right.

Eamonn Andrews : ...picked up straight away.

John Lennon : He mentioned that.

Paul McCartney : Straight away, Eamonn. You and me, eh? Education.

Eamonn Andrews : Now before we go any further, I'm just going to quote from Brian Epstein's book...

John Lennon : Why don't you quote from mine? It's cheaper.

Eamonn Andrews : ...'Cellarful Of Noise,' and he describes you as 'four young men in their early twenties, who left school before they should, who can neither read music nor write it. Who care not a fig or a damn or a button for anyone, save a tight, close-guarded clique of less than a dozen.

John Lennon : It's twenty-four now. We've met some more people.

Eamonn Andrews : Have you? Is that basically still true? The last part of it?

Paul McCartney : Well it's true with most people, isn't it? That you've got your circle of friends, you know. It's not true that we don't care a damn about anyone. We care more particularly for our circle of friends, I think. I think that's true about anyone, really. Isn't it?

Eamonn Andrews : Well, what...

Paul McCartney : Or have I slipped up, Eamonn?

Eamonn Andrews : No, I was... well, I was fascinated to read this. It's got up to twenty-four, John says. Who are the twenty-four? What sort of people are they that you have time for? Because you haven't much time in your lives, anyway. What sort of people are your friends? Who is this clique?

Paul McCartney : You know...

John Lennon : I can't think of anyone that loves us, really.

George Harrison : People like us, in the same business as us.

Paul McCartney : People with the same interests, really. 'Cuz we don't get a chance to talk about other things. You know, we talk 'shop' alot of the time. Like the Stones, you know. We're always chatting to them about records.